Ratings

 Ruby_Weapon_4


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 8 de de 2007
Посты:35
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 14:12
Unrate CBA and rate everything else with frequent resets.
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 [MsM]Alex_The_Brave


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 31 de de 2011
Посты:6
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 14:30
Get rid of ratings... it is just making these games go nuts

they have games like 1700 to 9999... now not many ppl are that high

so im FOR it;yahoo
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 Rambit


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 24 de de 2007
Посты:3606
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 15:37
Quote:
The idea of taking away ratings wasn't brought up to bring more variety to cs, or to keep the skill level accurate.... It was brought up because the number of complaints are still rising, and people are getting worse about losing their points. I don't see how resetting the ladder every few months would do anything but exasperate the problem
Agree. However all this discussion made me come to a realisation. It seems CBA player need that rating obsession to avoid people quitting. All this time I have seen it as a problem as ratings were not designed for that and there is just so much foul play as a result.

The only solution I can think of is either stop playing a game where you would want to quit at the start of the game, or change the game so you don't ever want to quit. Then again I guess that is what the appeal of CB has always been - hoping you get a civ which gives you an advantage over everyone else.
Quote:
2. Alternative maps are useless for rating, because they are only being used to boost up overall rating. Alternative maps feed decadence.
What makes CBA so much more deserving of being rated than the maps in the alternative ladder?
Quote:
4. Points need to be resetted once in a while. Every 6 or 8 or 12 months.
If they were some form of tournament then sure that would make sense, but they are just there so people can play against people of a similar skill level, resetting them would just make that harder. Why would resetting them be a good thing?
Quote:
5. Without rating, CBA players will quit after getting a bad civ. This counts for all CBA types of maps. G4m3R4ng3r is evidence for this, no need to test it on Voobly.
I've been told CBA is the most popular map on GR, the problem can't be too bad. There was also no quitting issues on zone.
Quote:
Conclusion:

The only solution is to reset the ladders once in a while and rate only the CBA ladder, but include all CBA types of maps into the ladder.

OR

Use the old system: one rating for everybody, but just reset it every 6/8/12 months.
How on earth would either of those fix any problems?
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 [ViCiouS]Archybot


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 20 de de 2009
Посты:850
Отредактировано27 de de 2011 - 17:35[ViCiouS]Archybot
most of us arguing to get rid of ratings (my fellow clan members) barely even play the game anymore. Why care then guys!!!!

I would play the game if I didn't have to get worried about not finishing a game... 5 games later. I've played almost 50 rated CBA games since the reset, but I'm only 10-8. I'll let you figure it out.

Rambit wrote:
Agree. However all this discussion made me come to a realisation. It seems CBA player need that rating obsession to avoid people quitting. All this time I have seen it as a problem as ratings were not designed for that and there is just so much foul play as a result.

The only solution I can think of is either stop playing a game where you would want to quit at the start of the game, or change the game so you don't ever want to quit. Then again I guess that is what the appeal of CB has always been - hoping you get a civ which gives you an advantage over everyone else.

There are way better ways (after a bit of programming that I know is possible) to solve quitters if this is really a problem. Honestly I would tell them to get the **** over it, but that's why I'm not a mod anymore.

Turn rated in CS into "anti quit." It'll have a map list just like it does now to stop being forced to play on a rigged map (only needed for gay CB genre maps). You'll have to make voobly actually detect when a REAL game is started, and not just a game lobby. You'll also have to make the game quit out once the game is over, so you can't stay and talk/idle afterwards (GR did this to me a couple of times, so I know it's possible)

Possible detectors:
1. Quitting (key word, QUIT) a game before 5-10 minutes (can be adjusted per game, or different times). Usually you can tell if a game is over by 10 minutes in CBA anyways.
2. (I'm sure there are other ones, but point 1 will solve 99% of them)

Possible punishments:
1. Unable to join another game (by IP) until that game is finished. Repeated offenses over a set amount of time could result in other punishments.
2. Temporary bans. You quit a game and you get a warning, next time it's 30 minute ban, next time it's 3 hours, so on and forth (times can be adjusted/capped). You can have this ban based on just being able to join "anti quit" rooms, or you can make this whole client. Preferably make this IP wide too.
3. Have a defcon color type system next to your name that adjusts based on leaving/finishing games. It goes down WAY easier than it goes back up. Say for every 1 leave you have to finish 20 games to regain the points lost. Preferably have this tied into IP over all accounts, so they can't just make a new account when they get into red.

New complaint types:
1. Someone gets a bad civ and just goes afk/excessively feeds kills until he can resign.
2. Griefs allies (such as blocking their spawn/helping enemies in chat)

This would cut down on complaints a lot. There would still be the occasional crasher, but eventually your Anti Cheat will detect them. This also will change the type of complaints you receive. While most complaints are hard for the basic computer user to document (Refusing to save), or are too hard to prove (crashes/syncs), the new type of complaints will simply be in the recorded game. Make doing these offenses punishable by bans (whether from anti-quit rooms or whole client) or a different type punishment (losing defcon if you go that way) and you'll be surprised how easy being a mod going through complaints will be (as most complaints will happen in the first 10 minutes of the recorded games)

But all in all, this is me being nice and trying to find a solution. In your situation, I would tell the CBA community "If you are going to be bad, you can't have nice things" and take ratings away from them. They shouldn't receive anymore special privileges since they can't handle the ones that are already given to them.

Rambit wrote:
I've been told CBA is the most popular map on GR, the problem can't be too bad. There was also no quitting issues on zone.

There is hardly any quitting issues on GR (i played there for 5 months while at university before voobly had NAT). Though, the reason for this is the community there is a lot more mature.
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 Rambit


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 24 de de 2007
Посты:3606
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 19:37
Quote:
There is hardly any quitting issues on GR (i played there for 5 months while at university before voobly had NAT). Though, the reason for this is the community there is a lot more mature.
Think that has anything to do with ratings? Perhaps the ratings attract the less mature people here, or perhaps ratings bring the worst out in people.

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 [ViCiouS]Archybot


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 20 de de 2009
Посты:850
Отредактировано27 de de 2011 - 20:30[ViCiouS]Archybot
Rambit wrote:
Think that has anything to do with ratings? Perhaps the ratings attract the less mature people here, or perhaps ratings bring the worst out in people.

It's both. It's hard to place which one it is more though. (i've edited like 4 times now changed my mind every time)

Any game with ELO-style ratings seems to have a less mature community as a whole. I play a game with a HUGE community, both unrated and rated. Rated games seem to make the same people immature compared to playing with them in unrated, but unrated has a way better vibe around it and it's players.
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 [Eot_]Master_G


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 9 de de 2008
Посты:4477
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 20:41
Let's set a new record for the longest thread on Voobly :D
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 [ViCiouS]H00dluM


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 29 de de 2007
Посты:898
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 21:53
I would play the game if I didn't have to get worried about not finishing a game... 5 games later. I've played almost 50 rated CBA games since the reset, but I'm only 10-8. I'll let you figure it out.

well played.. i am 14-10 but have about another 24 games that didn't 'finish'
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 Secrets


Группа: Золотой аккаунт
Дата причоединения 7 de de 2007
Посты:285
Отредактировано27 de de 2011 - 22:24Secrets
Remove the ratings entirely.

+1
REMOVE CS RATING

lol +1
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 [ViCiouS]Marauder


Группа: Voobly промоутер
Дата причоединения 18 de de 2009
Посты:3965
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 22:32
I would argue that the community at GR is no more mature than the one at voobly, both clients attract childish people. You can ask mike about that, both him and I are permanently banned from some europe and world map games for beating the "best player" which according to them is impossible. People also quit cba games there quite frequently, as well as kicking you from rooms for walling too far ahead in BF.

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 _LC_Red


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 8 de de 2009
Посты:612
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 22:40
**** the rating. remove them!
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 [_MD_]DaGhostInside


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 20 de de 2008
Посты:655
Размещено27 de de 2011 - 23:23
well played.. i am 14-10 but have about another 24 games that didn't 'finish'
then dont play all welcome.
when i play i will only get 1 on 50 games that "doesnt finish".
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 RIP_TridenT__


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 17 de de 2011
Посты:1044
Размещено28 de de 2011 - 04:07
rambit plz remove them, u see the trouble they cause.
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 Osman_I


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 11 de de 2011
Посты:52
Отредактировано28 de de 2011 - 08:44Osman_I
Quote:
What makes CBA so much more deserving of being rated than the maps in the alternative ladder?

Because CBA is the most played map in CS ? And alternative maps are being played just as much as bloods ?
There would be no CS without CBA, the majority of the CS players prefer to play CBA. Without the majority the CS community would be handicapped.
Quote:
If they were some form of tournament then sure that would make sense, but they are just there so people can play against people of a similar skill level, resetting them would just make that harder. Why would resetting them be a good thing?

What do you mean by if there was some sort of tournament? And who says people play against similiar skill level? Did you ever notice how in the top 20 CS rated players only 5 deserve to be up there? This counts double for the people who team stack daily to up their points. The top 20 rated players are representative of the overall mentality in CS. No matter how, get the points. The end justifies the means.
Quote:
I've been told CBA is the most popular map on GR, the problem can't be too bad. There was also no quitting issues on zone.

So, just because CBA is the most popular map on GR, does this mean people would't lame and quit? On Voobly it is also the most popular map, but its player base is freaking lame. You can ask the Mods who have to review complaints daily. I don't know about Zone, but today the quitting problem is huge on GR. But the reason why the map is still being hosted is, because people use ignore lists and love the map too much. The guys on GR are also relatively new to AOC, so they are more resistant against laming and dissapointment.
Quote:
How on earth would either of those fix any problems?

Well, very easy. By resetting the points the overal mentality will switch from: GET THE POINTS, NO MATTER WHAT. Into: well you can do the lamest things to get points, but in the end they will be resetted, so why would I want to go this far for points that will be gone in 8 months? People will relax.

And removing the unpopular maps will also help in this process. Only use rating for maps that REALLY NEED IT. That means for the CBA's. Everybody knows each other in all other ladders. So there is no need for rating. We know somebodies skill without having to look at their rating.





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 [ViCiouS]Archybot


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 20 de de 2009
Посты:850
Размещено28 de de 2011 - 11:05
Osman_I wrote:
Because CBA is the most played map in CS ? And alternative maps are being played just as much as bloods ?
There would be no CS without CBA, the majority of the CS players prefer to play CBA. Without the majority the CS community would be handicapped.

Spoken like a true new school era player. We had more players on Zone (1200+ CS during peak times) without CBA. CBA and ratings were introduced and it dropped to under 300 within months. Even nowadays during peaks we get no were NEAR close. Been trying to get this through admin/mods heads for years now, CBA + rates killed the true CS.

Fun Fact: We played on 1.0c on MSN zone because we didn't have to worry about hackers before CBA.


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